What happened and why did you take it to the dealer?

After a high-speed pass, I heard a tapping, very light, but definitely one that wasn't there previously. I had my bro-in-law check it out as well as Tom (fellow Cobra owner - has 3 of them and worked on numerous others). After they heard the noise and I explained everything to them, they both came to the same conclusion - piston issues. I also researched it on many well known Cobra owner forums. My research yielded the same results. I knew the problem would not be a cheap one to fix. Tom suggested I take the same route he did for one of his cars when the same thing happened. He suggested I speak to Steve from Boggus and talk to him about the After Warranty Assistance Program.

I called to talk to Steve and took the car to the dealership because from what I was told, (qualification requirements, price of work...etc) I had a good chance of qualifing and that the bulk of the criteria was having to convince the service manager to file an After Warranty Assistance claim. I was given the impression that as long as the service manager was satisfied and decided to call out the Ford Rep, chances were, I'd be a really good candidate for the assistnace program. So I took the car in.

What is an After Warranty Assistance Program?

After much research and a phone-call to Ford Customer Relations after I learned that I was denied the claim, I learned that the After Warranty Assistance Program exist but that not many people will know about this. It's very "hush hush" and is only available to "loyal" customers. What this program does is financially assist you if your car is out of warranty. Each dealership decides whether or not to file a claim. The Ford represenative makes a decision as to grant or deny the claim. Each dealership is assigned an official Ford Represenative - usually 1 per "region".

I found out later, that the way the program works is you leave your car, the dealership determines the problem and decides whether or not it's a warranty issue that is worth trying to make a claim on. If it is, they contact the Ford represenative for approval. If denied, everything halts there. If approved, the parts are ordered, the work is done and you get your car at a discount of what the work would normally cost (depending on what assistance program you qualify for - there are different levels). Some of the criteria I was told about when II took my car in were that there were no signs of abuse, that the car hadn't been majorly modified, and that the vehicle was still in warranty either by milage or time. There was NO MENTION about having to be the original owner of the vehicle, having a "history" with the dealership or the car having to be in or just a few weeks/a month out of warranty in order to qualify.

 

This is the gentleman I worked with Steve V. He came highly recommended from Tom and another fellow Cobra owner who had some warranty work done. He told me that Ford has an after warranty assistance program that's available to it's customers. Based on our initial meeting at the dealership, he was going to try and get my car qualified for the assistance program and explained the way things would work. I would drop my car and the service person assigned to me (in this case, Steve) would reproduce the problem for the mechanic and service manager to determine if it was worth contacting the Ford rep for. They're supposed to pull out the motor (in my case, diagnosing the problem included pulling the motor out), check for the problem and call up the Ford Rep after he/she approves it, they'd order a new motor, put it in and send me on my way.

I asked for a "ballpark dollar amount...500, 1000, 2000, 3000??" since I would have to secure a loan to pay for the work. I was told it's going to cost "about $2,200-$2,400" under the program they were tying to get me approved for. This figure was arrived at based on the experience of 2-3 others that had come into the dealership with the same issue....a ticking noise coming from the motor and it being a bad piston. One of the previous ones was Tom.

I made sure to pull out a bit extra so I got $2,500 just to be safe.

September 7th
I dropped the car at around 2:30pm. I drove it in, left the keys and found it kind of odd that I didn't have to fill out any paperwork but thought that they would have to determine whether or not I was a viable candidate for the Assistance Program before anyo of that would take place. They immediately started it up looking for the "tapping". I guess they're used to louder tapping because they Steve mentioned that he nor the tech assigned to the car could really hear it. Steve said that they would most likely get to it on the following Monday since I took it in during the day without an appointment and there was work scheduled ahead of me.

September 10th
I talked to Steve and he told me that his boss (Service Manager, LARRY) and the mechanic that was assigned to my car weren't entirely convinced that the head-tap was bad on Friday. So, this morning, after letting it sit over the weekend and after a cold-start, they heard the tapping loud and clear. He told me that they were going to yank the engine Tuesday morning, pull the head and see if the piston was indeed the culprit.

September 11th
Didn't get a call.

September 12th
Steve called today to inform me that I may not qualify for the assistance program they were originally going to try and warranty the work with. He mentioned that I may not qualify for since I don't have much of a history with the dealership. (I only took my 2005 Mustang GT in twice for service before I had the Cobra).

Also, it looks like they have different levels of assistance programs. The program he was trying to qualify me for is reserved for "customers in good standing" with the dealership (ie: bought a vehicle or two, had service with them, bought parts, etc.). The warranty assistnace program I DIDN'T qualify for, that they were tryingto get me approved for paid for enough of the work to where my portion would have been $2,400of the total bill. This would have been nice to know BEFORE they pulled my motor.

The one that I do qualify for will cover $2,000 of the total bill (said engine replace would come out to $8k+change, my part = 6k+change). He said he'd call back with more news.

The call back:
It looks like the bill will be around $3,000 bucks - NOT $2,400. That is IF he canget me in the "70%" assistance program. He said he was going to go to his boss and plead my case. He said that it sounds better that I'll pay $3,000 instead of $2,400 I guess? I hope he can make this happen.

SIDE NOTE:
Turns out that Steve didnt' get his figure right from the onset. He was going based on the work they did for Tom which came out to WHAT HE THOUGHT was $2,400 - it was actually just a bit over $3,000 - but didnt' learn that untili after he looked it up on the system.

ADDITIONAL SIDENOTE:
A couple of buddies of mine were nice enough to drop by the shop to check in on the progress of the car and snapped a few pictures. Good thing to, you'll learn why later.

He said he'd call back with more news sometime tomorrow. He mentioned that the motor had finally been taken out of the car.

September 13th
I got a call from Steve saying that the Ford Rep. denied the claim for the after-warranty assistance program that they were trying to get me in for. On top of that, the assistance program that I *do* qualify for will only help me out with $1500 of the total bill instead of the previous figure of $2000 that I was given.

Steve said that the Ford rep told them that since I'm not the original owner (bought it used), and that my car was over a year out of warranty, that I don't qualify. I don't know anything about this program and everyone I called at Ford Customer Relations (for 45 mins) gave me the run-around. I did find that, these "po5, po7, po1...etc" programs are supposed to be very hush-hush to the customer according to people who have had work done under these After Warranty Assistnace Programs that posted information on the internet.

I just need to see how much it's going to cost me to get the car out. Had I known from the beginning that I didn't qualify - I would have just taken it to my regular mechanic. I took it there with the understanding that I met the requirements for the program that would run me about $2,400. Had they known (not my fault they weren't informed of some of the criteria until AFTER my engine was out and work was done) and told me "Mr. Avila, you have to meet x, y, & z requirements" we could have saved a lot of time and I could have saved money.

I asked about the hourly labor rate and Steve said that they charge 92/hr. My next question was how many hours were involved in the engine extraction and head removal. He said "Looks like around 10hrs". Yay. He mentioned that he could probably get the cost of the labor down. I told him I'd call him back. At that point, I was too frustrated to make a rational decision.

September 14th
Steve called to find out what I planned to do with the car. He mentioned that I could buy the parts myself and have the work done there at the dealership at a discounted labor rate. I asked him for a quote for the pistons. He called back and said that the price of the pistons were $220 PER PISTON for direct Ford replacements. I had a friend call and he was quoted 140 per piston. This was based on the car's VIN so I KNOW they were the correct part for the car. This guy isn't even a dealer or anything like that and he got a quote that was 80 bucks cheaper!! Damn Boggus, that's one hell of a markup huh?

I told him I'd call him back after I figure out what it was I wanted to do over the weekend. I told him I was probably going to just pick up the car as-is and have it towed to my Brother-In-Law's shop and have HIM work on the car and buy the parts myself.

September 17th
Steve called to see what it is I wanted to do with the car. I told him that I wanted to take it. I asked him what my total was and he said that he got the labor down to 75/hr (comes out to $750). I told him that I didn't want to pay that much for something that could have been avoided. He said he could probably get it down to 70/hr if he really tried. I kept going on about how if they had known the requirements from the beginning, that I wouldn't have even bothered taking it over since I knew I wouldn't qualify. He said that he didn't know some of the requirements/reasons the Ford Rep denied the claim. He said I could talk to the service manager.

At this point, I called Ford Customer Relations to try and get more information as far as requirements and how the "after warranty assistance" program works. I wanted to get the information from a non-related, 3rd party source. The represenative asked me about the whole incident and after documenting it, she "researched" it. Turns out her "research" included an on-the-spot call to the dealership to get their information about my situation. She also contacted the Ford Rep assigned to the area I live in and got her information as to why the claim was denied. She came back and on the line and explained how the assistance program works and why the Ford Rep denied my dealership's claim. She said she was sorry that she didn't have the authority to reverse the Ford Rep's decision. She said the rep denied it for 2 reaons: 1-I am not the original owner of the vehicle (bought it used) and 2-My car was a year out of warranty. I made it clear that my intention for calling wasn't to point fingers, only to get more information about how the program works - I didn't want to lodge any complaints.

I called the dealership and spoke to the Service Manager (Larry). I told him what I told Steve, that I didn't feel it was right to have to pay for work that didn't even have to occur had they just laid out the requirements of the assistance program from the beginning instead of learning about them as things happened. I told him I just wanted my car back, even if it was in peices. He said that he could "help me out" by bringing the total cost to $650 and I told him that I didn't feel I should have to pay anything, but that all I could spare was $400-$500 because I was operating on a budget - eventually SOMONE would have to do the work and that cost money. We went round and round and he mentioned that he was about to leave to Las Vegas at Noon (it was 11:25 when I checked my watch). He said he'd be gone and eluded to the suggestion that it would be best to take care of it now since he'd be out for some time (3 days if memory serves?). I felt like I really didn't have a choice if I wanted to have my car out of there. I finally decided that I'd have to compromise - 500 bucks would get me out the door.

SIDENOTE:
The dealership should have known the requirements for the assistance program. Both Steve AND Larry said that they didn't know until after the work was done about the requirements. Having a service history with the dealership, being the original owner of the vehicle and the car's warranty status are all things THEY should have taken into account and mentioned to the Ford Represenative BEFORE they even so much as cracked my hood open for work.

I went during my lunch-hour to pay my bill and to inform them that Pete (BIL) would be down to pick up my pieces and have my car towed to his shop.

ANOTHER SIDE NOTE:
Throughout all this, I never signed a work-order authorizing the work to be done.

September 18th
Car was towed to Pete's shop....

Pete called me up later today and let me know that he found some scratches on the hood that weren't there previously after giving the car a quick walk-around. He suggested before I call Boggus, to give him a chance to look over everything, make sure all parts were accounted for before contacting them....

October 3rd
Pete noticed some scratches on the "cowl" (back portion of hood, nearest windshield) and emailed me a quick picture (CLICK HERE). I also had a crank-pulley that was man-handled and not properly removed (CLICK HERE). On top of those two things, he told me that when he and Juan went to pick up my car, that the guys were less than the quality one would expect from a dealership. Some of my bolts were thrown on the engine instead of a box. He said that there were multiple signs of the car not being cared for - even when he was right there. I suppose they thought he was some shade-tree mechaninc, not my brother-in-law and mechaninc with 20+ years of experience holding multiple certifications from ASE (including MASTER MECHANIC).

Anyway, I called Larry (Dealership's Service Manager) and told him what I had found. I mentioned that the hood was scratched and that the crank-pulley was really beat to shit. He didn't sound real convinced until I told him I had pictues IN HIS SHOP of my hood being proped up by a battery with no protection from scratching as well as a shop tech with a huge pry-bar trying to remove my crank pulley. He asked for pictures so I sent them.

Here's my email:

I attached the pictures of what I was talking about. There are pictures of a technician with a huge pry bar trying to take off my crank pulley along with a picture of the results. There is a picture of my hood (no rags or anything else to protect the paint on the corners) on the bare floor, propped up on a table with a car battery holding it in place so it won't slide.

I'm not quite sure what the standard operating procedure is around the shop, but I expected a much higher level of care and service being that Boggus is a well known dealership and that my vehicle is a Cobra. Most folks that own vehicles like Cobras are very particular about them.

I would like to see that my crank pulley is replaced and my hood scratches that occurred while in the shop's possession be fixed.

I look forward to your prompt response.

-N

Pictures sent:

 

His response:

Mr. Avila

Please send me a better of the scratches I can not tell were they are on the hood and the tech showed steven some scratches on the hood he will be back in 2 days or so I hope. so if you can send me a better picture it will help.

Thanks
Larry

My Reply (sent @ 10:45am):

Here are better pictures. As stated, the pre-existing scratches were on the front driver's side of the hood. The scratches I'm concerned with are on the back (cowl) section of the hood - right where the battery was.

In addition to that, I was notified that I'm missing an item - a steering "pinch bolt" off of the rack.

I was also told that when my car was being picked up, my head was being put back on with an air tool. The gentleman picking up my vehicle saw this and asked the tech to just leave it as is so as not to risk damaging the head. The reason I'm informing you of this is to establish a pattern of how inadequately my car was handled as well as to inform you of what goes on in your shop.

All of this was done to a vehicle while pictures were being taken and to a vehicle whose owner made it very obvious from the beginning that he is not the "average" owner as far as how meticulous I am with my vehicles.

-N

PICTURES SENT:

Click to see hi-res versions where you can REALLY see the scratches...

 

Called Larry @ 2:15 (3 & 1/2 hrs after my email). I asked "Hello, I was wondering if you got my email?". He responded "Yes I have". There was a bit of an silence and I finally said "So what are we going to do" (or something like that) and he said "I'll get back to you later today." I said "oooo-kay."

Larry called back.
From the beginning, he made it clear that he didn't believe that there was anything really wrong. He asked why I waited 2-3 weeks to mention things. He said that the scratches could have occured any time outside the shop. I told him at that point that the reason I waited was because the guys who picked up my car did a walk-around as soon as they got it back to the shop and noticed a scratch on the hood. Pete (one of the guys picking up my car) suggested that I wait to call or report anything until he went through everything to account for all parts and to make sure nothing else was damaged or needed replacing.

Steve went on to say that he spoke to Steve as well as the service tech that helped in getting the car out of the shop. The tech did not remember the scratches. He further said that the guys that came to pick up the car didn't say anything either, if the scratches were there, SOMEONE would have notice while putting the hood on since the tech put it on with the help of the guys that were there to pick up my car. He said that those scratches didn't get there while in the shop - someone would have noticed them.

He then went on to say that the crank pulley is a very hard thing to take off. He said that sometimes they use an "air chisel" to remove them. He said that other than a bit of marring, the pulley should be fine - if it doesn't work out, he'd replace it for me.

He also said that as far as the bolts, that the tech didn't remember anything about a missing steering pinch bolt off of the rack & pinon. "I can get you a bolt...".

THE CALL TO PETE:
Pete told me that the way he remembered things, he may have helped hold the hood up, but that he did NOT help with bolting it onto the car. Larry made it seem as though Pete carried the hood out wrench in hand and helped put it on the car.

He also told me how the shop in general just didn't show good practice: replacing my head on the engine using an air tool, parts were all over the place. Bolts & screws were thrown onto the block instead of a box...etc Nothing ABSOLUTELY wrong, but just not the way you'd expect a respected dealership to handle customer cars muchless a very picky one with a Cobra.

THE OUTCOME:
I've placed a call to the general manager. I plan to schedule a meeting and share all the information I have to him about the whole ordeal from beginning to end. I am going to have Pete there since he was the one who was on-site when the car was being picked up. I would think that Larry and possibly Steve from the dealership would be there as well.

I called @ 4:30 and again at just after 5pm. I left messages saying that I was very concerned about a situation at the dealership and that I would like to speak to him. I asked that he call me that evening and that if he couldn't - first thing tomorrow morning.

Here are a few more photos (Click pic to see large format):

Workspace - That's the supercharger and intercooler inches from the edge of the table.	That's my engine - on the floor. What happened to using an engine stand?
There is the shop tech trying to remove the pulley - with the Steve looking on.

October 4th:

10:00AM
No call back. I called and left a message again stating who I was, my contact number and asked that he call me back.

10:35:
Found an email address for the General Manager (Jack McKeever). I sent the following:

Hello,

My name is Erik “Nino” Avila.

I called late twice yesterday late afternoon and once this morning. I left messages.

I fully understand and respect that you are probably very busy. I just ask that you take a small amount of time to respond to my attempts at contacting you so that I can schedule a meeting with you to discuss my situation whenever your schedule permits. ?

Please Email/Phone me at your earliest convenience. I would like to speak to you about a situation that I’m having concerning the Service department. I’ve already spoken to Larry (Service Manager?) and did not get my situation resolved to my satisfaction.

I would like to speak to you about it.

I look forward to your prompt response,

-Nino

October 5th:
Let me start off by saying I've been working in the "service" oriented arena for years. My employment at UTPA has been surrounded by it (until my move to Networking). When I worked as the guy who managed all the computer labs on campus (5 years?), I had to learn a lot of things. Customer service/relations and Employee/time management to name a few. I have been to "training" and read books. NOTHING prepares you like on-the-job training. 15 full time employees and 65+ part time workers, 30 labs around campus....talk about a "trial by fire". But, I got through it because I chose to. Not having a degree only made things harder - I had to go beyond those that did to keep my job. It would have been easy to be written off as "Another non degree holding joe who tried his best". I am by NO means the best, I still try to learn from whatever I can.

So, what does that have to do with any of this?? - Well, I have a pretty good nose for sniffing out bullshit and hot-air. I guess a little bit of that comes from being the kind of kid I was growing up :) (Sorry mom & dad!!). One thing I was told that has stuck with me to this day by Steve Copold: "You can fool the fans, but you can't play the players."

Last but not least, if I am able to provide service to some of the most needy customers (pissed-off students and professors who think they're God's gift to the world), then so can others. There is no excuse for bad service.

9:25am:
Got a call from Denny McKeever (Parts/Service Director). He was very fair in that he recognized that things should (not could) have gone much better than they had. He did what a good service oriented position-holder should. He heard me out, was very friendly. I say this because of not just his choice of words, but his tone of voice as well. He repeated my concerns to me which showed that he was listening to me, not hearing me. Finally, he ASKED not TOLD me about a possible resolution. Overall - very well handled. It's folks like HIM that keep Boggus where they are and for how long they've been there I suppose.

This is how it broke down:

Hood: Get an estimate from 2 shops for the cost of painting the entire hood - they are willing to cover 50% of the cost.

Pinch Bolt & Crank Pulley: Submit reciept/invoice for the part ( I assume they'd re-imburse me, I didn't nail that down)

I'm very happy with the way he handled things. I hope that my documentation, pictures and discussion Boggus/Mr. McKeever improve the way customers are communicated with and how vehicles are handled. There was NO excuse for the way my car was handled in the shop. If Diagnostic Specialists - a 3 man operation can keep the shop neat, parts in order and customer's cars safe - so can a big-budget shop with much more resources.

In Larry's defense, it's been my experience in life that not everyone is cut out to be a "leader" or "diplomat". I've seen many people who were great in their field get promoted to a "supervisor" type of position and didn't do half as well. I think in the case of a "Service Manager" you have to have a good foundation in shop stuff, but more importantly, your most important skill set should include handling the operations of the repair shop, it's employees and the customers that come in and out of there. To be flat honest, Steve was MUCH better at communicating that he was. He didn't have a condescending undertone that I felt Larry had. Maybe it was because Larry just wanted me the hell out of there already - hahaha

I'm glad this is going in a MUCH more positive direction. I really didn't want to call in one of my "lawyer favors". I didn't want to have to burn up that sort of capital something like this. I had already researched the BBB claim process, got names and numbers for the appropriate contacts with the local news papers and all three news teams. I still have all of it if anyone out there needs them.

Either way, I'm going to get back with them when I get my quotes/invoices and see where things go from there.

November 12:
My pulley is in, it cost $892.81!!!! Check out th invoice HERE.

November 15:
I had such a hard time believing it cost that much, I called up a random Ford dealership and wouldn't you know it, it cost exactly the same amount. Check out the quote they sent me HERE.

I have gotten 1 quote to paint my hood, but need 1 more. Almost there!!

December 12:
Got my paint quotes. Took I had so much to do with the house, courts, laywers...etc

Quote 1: BURNS MOTORS
Quote 2: COLLISION MASTERS

January (Forgot date):
Settled with Boggus for $700 to cover hood scratch and new pulley

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